I would. It's pretty clear the dev team doesn't care about Jaiku anymore. Alongside the blog post about the downtime, there was a badge with a message from Jyri saying he was eating oysters, for god's sake! I have no confidence in this any more...
agreed but will the masses switch over to Jaiku? Clearly the dependency on Twitter is there, but even Google providing much better reliability for Jaiku I suspect would not be enough to move people over here.
@Fab Jyri is hardly responsible for jaiku any more. The only person as far as i remember that is on it full time is Andy. Jaiku for me is all about the users, not the dev team, and users are hardly to blame for whatever goes on at the google towers. @gino128 great, i don't want twitter users migrating here any way.
So their dev team is one person? That explains a lot.... I agree with you on the users, but I hate to have them locked into a proprietary app with one developer that hasn't had features implemented for a year now. And we can't do it ourselves, because it's closed....
well no, it's not one person. i meant that the others are working on other projects as well (now, this is as far as i understand). the problem is identi.ca is open and that doesn't make the features (apparently new features is all that matters these days) storm in at the speed of light. For all that talk there is not programmers storming from every direction to write these features, so that argument is out for me.
But the point is that you could write them yourself. And I guarantee you threading will be in Laconica in far less than a year. Hell, I'll work on it myself as soon as I get this move done. My point is that I am convinced the "leaders" here don't care anymore. And when they are the only people that can do things, that's bad. With Laconica, if Evan quits today, I can still work on it and make it my own project if I want to. Jaiku is sitting on their laurels right now and that is never good. As crap as Twitter is, the guys over there are at least doing SOMETHING!
I'm willing to let things evolve here on Jaiku. Something about its mobile architecture fits my lifestyle nicely. I especially like the complaining and pointage to other options.
The reason both twitter and Jaiku were interesting is that they allowed you to participate from any platform. For some reason though everyone now wants every twitter, jaiku, pownce, plurk, twit army, laconica, identica and company to be one massive thing.
What about just making it easy to use the sites on the move. That's what the innovation was.... the rest is secondary.
@Fab have you read my post? I understand that you can write them yourself. but people don't, not at any great speed, it's not liek all the programers in the world have the time to do shit because they can. Hell if you want you could have written the whole platform from scratch, so what? I'm not saying this is not good, but it's not something to go ape shit about, in practice it's much less amazing than in theory. As for twitter just doing something is no achievement if what you're doing is not worth anything.
If they swapped this to google engines they should put the code up on the labs any way. I mean if google is not interested in carrying on with jaiku they might as well open source it.
@whatley: You kidding me, right? "We are off for the weekend. Talk to somebody you love." "Oh, seems like we are off some time longer. Insert unfunny bird metaphor. Blah blah...." As we say in Germany: "Verarschen kann ich mich selber." (I can make fun of myself just fine on my own.)
@Anna: Have you read my post? I said if nobody else does it, I will. And no, I could not have written the whole thing from scratch or I would have (and you couldn't either, I suspect). I just love the fact that I can do a darcs send to Evan and he can and will include my patches while I have to sit on Jaiku all day long and be annoyed with stuff I can't do anything about.
@whatley: Yes, I have to use it beacuse they have my friends locked in. And tell me what the hell they were doing to "fix stuff" that took so damned long. As long as they don't communicate clearly what the problem was and only talk in meaningless phrases like "we encountered an error" and "we had to move to a new datacentre" they will have to put up with me complaining. Tough luck.
yeah agree with whatley on that one. you do not have to use it, your friends are not locked, we're all free to move except some don't won't too. what the fuck is 'locked in' supposed to mean?
for all the talk about what you can do on identi.ca for once go and do something. half of this business is pointless banter about what people can do but never do any way.
If you've set up your own Jaiku, why are you still whining on here?
When Twitter stopped sending SMS in the UK, I posted my complaint and left. I didn't keep using their service to bitch about how useless their service is, because hello, irony?
My personal feeling is that each of these 'mobile' services will fall over as the majority of its users starts to post from web, IM, etc. If you can access it from a full-size keyboard when you're at your desk, the entire tone of the conversations hosted on it changes radically. The sole thing distinguishing them from a million other forums and chat-channels is lost, and sooner or later people will wander back to the alternatives that were designed for the desktop usage scenario in the first place. Imho.
@fabsh If you want me to rant about a service then take a look at my tweets and blog posts. If there's one service that doesn't deserve user loyalty it's twitter. Time and time again they've had so many bugs that it's really tiring.
Twitter was an innovator and it's lost it's place in the market which is why there are so many clones, whether open source or private.
In contrast jaiku stayed small and worked on preserving all it's services for as long as possible. The fact that it was bought by google shows that it's a service worthy of interest. We have a good symbian app, nice thread notification to the e-mail accounts and in general a pretty good uptime.
I like jaiku but it's hard to convince people to move from twitter to jaiku because of the community aspect. Jaiku is a good service. Twitter is a shit service with a strong community.
@dennymeta: That was said half in jest, of course. But still, it comes all back to the lock-in. The beauty of Laconica is that we can all be on different services and still talk to each other as long as they support OMB. Here, I will always have to come back to Jaiku to check what Anna is doing. That's lock-in.
You haven't moved, you're straddling. This is moving:
http://twitter.com/hexhttp://twitter.com/denny
I'm sure there are many other examples, those are just two I happen to know off the top of my head.
@warza - Fair point. Add to your calculations what do you gain by leaving, and what do you lose by staying. (credibility for your complaints being top in my thoughts, obviously, along with the chance of being the person who starts/leads the move to a better service)
@fabsh - it's a fairly soft lock-in - just requires a few influential people in your network to have the balls to be the first to move. If the new place really is better, the rest will be along in due course.
@fabsh On the positive side aside from a 6 day offline stint it's still got all of it's features plus unlimited invites, it's part of google and is now on their servers. What's the likelyhood of the problem occuring again.
Is the problem that you don't trust Jaiku anymore?
By the way, precis of recent conversation... Me: if you don't like it, move. You: I have. Me: you haven't moved, you're straddling. You: Didn't you read what I said, I can't fucking move!
I did read what you said, you just keep changing your (fucking) mind.
I send from identi.ca to twitter and from army.twit.tv to twitter but I don't send from jaiku to twitter and vice versa. I dislike anyone that posts but doesn't respond to the posts.
@fabsh You seem to have a lot of harsh criticisms of the Jaiku guys.
1- This message by Jyri: http://jyri.jaiku.com/presence/43166982 says they're having oysters in the Google canteen after bringing back the site. Are you saying that choosing to eat (free) oysters indicates that they don't care? But this one: http://jyri.jaiku.com/presence/43151108 says they've been sleeping at the (admittedly very nice) San Francisco office whilst getting the site back up.
The Twitter guys had a lot of unfair criticisms when they had problems from people who seemed to feel that when you're fixing things you should avoid eating/sleeping/etc. I suspect when identica gets bigger and they start asking for volunteers to be oncall they will face similar criticisms. It's not enough to be open source (sourceforge is full of dead open source projects) you also need people who will deal with production problems 24/7/365. It's going to take some very dedicated people to fix production problems for free on christmas day whilst random bloggers accuse you of slacking.
2- I think identica is a very good idea and I wish you guys all the luck in the world. However badmouthing other people is a bad way to bootstrap a new service. See this: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/19/pressflip-is-a-belly-flop/ for the inevitable consequence.
3- People at Google care about Jaiku. It may not always seem like it given the company's strict rules about public disclosure but there are lots of people involved. Those people have worked really hard over the last week but you've only got my word for it. You're free to believe that I'm lying.
OK, in Fabian's defence, I think we (that includes him) have been very faithful and long time jaiku users (how long has it been? about a year and a half i think, in internet terms that is long). We hardly complained ever before, we've since google bought the service and closed the sign up (not that many new users, not much scaling issues, why the performance trouble?) in order to apparently focus on developing the service not much has happened. If you've been around for so long and been so dedicated it gets frustrating.
I've culled those I follow when many in my social space migrated and plan to use Jaiku mostly for its channels and SMS-out services. Those channels and those text messages make up for some of the frustrations vented on this thread.
@topgold. I've never removed people on jaiku but I have on twitter, many times. As the community grew so do the number of people. After a while there are so many tweets you don't see those by your friends.
i wonder why the you (fab) doesn't come on IRC anymore... we all miss you, IRC has an open ISO spec, and the worst way IRC has downtime are net-splits :) COME TO THE IRC MAN, having you guys stay in these damn micro-blogging services are honestly killing the community you created. Maybe we need some sort of automatic migration system from service to service??
You have to cull monthly if you want to flick back and see a day's tweets in the 10 page history archive. And I like threading. I don't like the shout-across-the-pub metaphor on Twitter. Even AT-replies get confusing in all the rabble.
HAHA HEY :P we should crate a #Jaiku channel on freenode to make everyone feel at home :) or... HEY make Google host a #Jaiku IRC server and let people that use Jaiku use their log in and shit to make rooms and have convos ;) all i know is that things should evolve somehow. come on over to IRC everyone, you'll feel at home :)
give me a decent client and i'm there, hehe (haven't used irc since approx age of 14, i had the patience to use mIRC back then, but i doubt i would now)
XChat :P but if only that damn windoze client didnt cost money.... uhm.. anyone?? we need to create some way on IRC to have each person as their OWN ROOM/CHANNEL, and then have people following other people, just add the other peoples channel to their own channel, and have a message be directed to another channel by the @<nick> syntax :)
Threading has one massive flaw. Isolated communications. Gangs form and newbies are ignored. Threading is why I left web forums several years ago. I prefer any community where I see what's new in ten seconds rather than 20 minutes.
If there's a good conversation then someone will blog it. Once the post is written I don't need to waste three hours re-reading every single answer to see what points were the most interesting.
Agree with @topgold It's easier for a newbie to converse in a threaded conversation rather than plucking random names from @ replies. Alos with Jaiku one's far distant friend will see the comment and join in on the fun, that's how most threads in Jaiku get going.
Jaiku is threaded. Twitter is unthreaded. For people who use their mailboxes to thread discussion, Jaiku looks more intuitive. It doesn't mean their friends like it and at the end of the day, you need friends to chat.
2 million and a half people use twitter, 800,000 posts appear a day. There are many add ons to twitter that people enjoy. Summize was bought by twitter for search.
Quotably can help towards threading as well.
Ironically friendfeed is a cheaper, less refined version of jaiku but since US tech bloggers either don't have invites or friends on jaiku they promote friendfeed.
It's interesting to note these small differences...
having been involved in a number of this type of horrible projects (you know the ones; should only take a few hours, but end up taking all day or longer), i can forgive (to some limited extent) the Jaiku team for the lack of updates.
You get all involved in solving the problem, and don't really notice the time (one last thing syndrome, this will only take 5 mins and you are still going 30 mins later), or that people do not know what you are doing, so you forget to update people.
Very brave decision to bring the move to Google infrastucture forward (prompted by external events, i would guess). Oh, and i would prefer one big downtime to repeated FailWhale situations (jury is still out on this)
But then look at all the attention the team gave once the service (which BTW is free!) once it came back online, i.e. there was nothing more important to do, they were allover any questions, or reports of problems.
Why Jaiku? Well I have friends here (Hi @Topgold), and Jaiku keep their SMS stream flowing (big deal in Europe where they pay to send, free to get) which is needed if, like me, offline is your usual setup.
Threading means that you can choose to join in the flow via SMS, so fewer sent.
And as the first devs were ex-nokia, the mobile element is important. I'm sure the Google mobile and GPS apis are from that source.
Jaiku is more about the offline/mobile online than the others.
I'm glad its back because it suits me better than the alternatives, and I think I can see where its going.
72 comments so far
Hi there Fab
10 months, 1 week ago by KevanV
don't get me started, Fab
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Once we worked out how to best put comments into Laconica, Jaiku's gonna be so dead to me....
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
well i wouldn't go that far.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
I would. It's pretty clear the dev team doesn't care about Jaiku anymore. Alongside the blog post about the downtime, there was a badge with a message from Jyri saying he was eating oysters, for god's sake! I have no confidence in this any more...
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
From the chattering on Twitter, the world likes having more than one Jaiku just like it likes to have more than one search engine.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
agreed but will the masses switch over to Jaiku? Clearly the dependency on Twitter is there, but even Google providing much better reliability for Jaiku I suspect would not be enough to move people over here.
10 months, 1 week ago by gino128
@Fab Jyri is hardly responsible for jaiku any more. The only person as far as i remember that is on it full time is Andy. Jaiku for me is all about the users, not the dev team, and users are hardly to blame for whatever goes on at the google towers. @gino128 great, i don't want twitter users migrating here any way.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
So their dev team is one person? That explains a lot.... I agree with you on the users, but I hate to have them locked into a proprietary app with one developer that hasn't had features implemented for a year now. And we can't do it ourselves, because it's closed....
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
well no, it's not one person. i meant that the others are working on other projects as well (now, this is as far as i understand). the problem is identi.ca is open and that doesn't make the features (apparently new features is all that matters these days) storm in at the speed of light. For all that talk there is not programmers storming from every direction to write these features, so that argument is out for me.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
But the point is that you could write them yourself. And I guarantee you threading will be in Laconica in far less than a year. Hell, I'll work on it myself as soon as I get this move done. My point is that I am convinced the "leaders" here don't care anymore. And when they are the only people that can do things, that's bad. With Laconica, if Evan quits today, I can still work on it and make it my own project if I want to. Jaiku is sitting on their laurels right now and that is never good. As crap as Twitter is, the guys over there are at least doing SOMETHING!
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
I'm willing to let things evolve here on Jaiku. Something about its mobile architecture fits my lifestyle nicely. I especially like the complaining and pointage to other options.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
The reason both twitter and Jaiku were interesting is that they allowed you to participate from any platform. For some reason though everyone now wants every twitter, jaiku, pownce, plurk, twit army, laconica, identica and company to be one massive thing.
What about just making it easy to use the sites on the move. That's what the innovation was.... the rest is secondary.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
Well the mobile solution is great, I think that mashup will be the solution for the future
10 months, 1 week ago by Cityrat59
Both twitter and Jaiku already had it though, it's old by now for us early adopters ;-)
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
@Fab have you read my post? I understand that you can write them yourself. but people don't, not at any great speed, it's not liek all the programers in the world have the time to do shit because they can. Hell if you want you could have written the whole platform from scratch, so what? I'm not saying this is not good, but it's not something to go ape shit about, in practice it's much less amazing than in theory. As for twitter just doing something is no achievement if what you're doing is not worth anything.
If they swapped this to google engines they should put the code up on the labs any way. I mean if google is not interested in carrying on with jaiku they might as well open source it.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
They brought it back far faster than they brought back writely. Appears they want to keep it detached for the moment.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
@warza, yeah maybe but it's pathetic to say you're off for the weekend and not come back till Thursday.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
@overpills but it's much faster and unlike the twitter crowd they haven't taken any features away so that's positive :-).
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
at least a 'sorry' would be in order...
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Dudes, seriously, why all the neg?
10 months, 1 week ago by whatleydude
I'm not negative :-), happy to see jaiku back, especially since it appears faster and no features are removed :-)
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
@whatley: You kidding me, right? "We are off for the weekend. Talk to somebody you love." "Oh, seems like we are off some time longer. Insert unfunny bird metaphor. Blah blah...." As we say in Germany: "Verarschen kann ich mich selber." (I can make fun of myself just fine on my own.)
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
@warza: Oh great! They removed nothing! I'm so happy. Lets praise them for that!!!
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
Nope. Still don't get it. They tried to upgrade stuff, stuff went wrong, they worked tirelessly to fix stuff and ultimately got stuff done.
Dude, they're only human. Yes they could've communicated it better, but who really cares about that now? We can all talk to each other again.
We should be supportive and happy - I mean, if you don't like it, you don't have to use it dude. Neg sucks.
10 months, 1 week ago by whatleydude
@Anna: Have you read my post? I said if nobody else does it, I will. And no, I could not have written the whole thing from scratch or I would have (and you couldn't either, I suspect). I just love the fact that I can do a darcs send to Evan and he can and will include my patches while I have to sit on Jaiku all day long and be annoyed with stuff I can't do anything about.
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
@whatley: Yes, I have to use it beacuse they have my friends locked in. And tell me what the hell they were doing to "fix stuff" that took so damned long. As long as they don't communicate clearly what the problem was and only talk in meaningless phrases like "we encountered an error" and "we had to move to a new datacentre" they will have to put up with me complaining. Tough luck.
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
yeah agree with whatley on that one. you do not have to use it, your friends are not locked, we're all free to move except some don't won't too. what the fuck is 'locked in' supposed to mean?
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
for all the talk about what you can do on identi.ca for once go and do something. half of this business is pointless banter about what people can do but never do any way.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
If you've set up your own Jaiku, why are you still whining on here?
When Twitter stopped sending SMS in the UK, I posted my complaint and left. I didn't keep using their service to bitch about how useless their service is, because hello, irony?
My personal feeling is that each of these 'mobile' services will fall over as the majority of its users starts to post from web, IM, etc. If you can access it from a full-size keyboard when you're at your desk, the entire tone of the conversations hosted on it changes radically. The sole thing distinguishing them from a million other forums and chat-channels is lost, and sooner or later people will wander back to the alternatives that were designed for the desktop usage scenario in the first place. Imho.
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
@fabsh If you want me to rant about a service then take a look at my tweets and blog posts. If there's one service that doesn't deserve user loyalty it's twitter. Time and time again they've had so many bugs that it's really tiring.
Twitter was an innovator and it's lost it's place in the market which is why there are so many clones, whether open source or private.
In contrast jaiku stayed small and worked on preserving all it's services for as long as possible. The fact that it was bought by google shows that it's a service worthy of interest. We have a good symbian app, nice thread notification to the e-mail accounts and in general a pretty good uptime.
I like jaiku but it's hard to convince people to move from twitter to jaiku because of the community aspect. Jaiku is a good service. Twitter is a shit service with a strong community.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
@dennymeta: That was said half in jest, of course. But still, it comes all back to the lock-in. The beauty of Laconica is that we can all be on different services and still talk to each other as long as they support OMB. Here, I will always have to come back to Jaiku to check what Anna is doing. That's lock-in.
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
Lead by example. If you want to encourage your social network to move to a more open service, move to a more open service.
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
I have. Doesn't help much when all my friends are still on here, though, does it...
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
You haven't moved, you're straddling. This is moving: http://twitter.com/hex http://twitter.com/denny I'm sure there are many other examples, those are just two I happen to know off the top of my head.
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
Jaiku Ate My Newlines :-p
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
How much time did those who leave a network invest there? It's fine to leave, but what are you losing by leaving and what do you preserve by staying
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
You don't get it, do you? Have you read what I have said? I can't fucking move because most of my fucking friends are on fucking Jaiku!!!
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
well your fucking friends prefer jaiku so tough shit.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
@warza - Fair point. Add to your calculations what do you gain by leaving, and what do you lose by staying. (credibility for your complaints being top in my thoughts, obviously, along with the chance of being the person who starts/leads the move to a better service)
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
@Anna: I know. That's my dilemma right there. :)
10 months, 1 week ago by fabsh
@fabsh - it's a fairly soft lock-in - just requires a few influential people in your network to have the balls to be the first to move. If the new place really is better, the rest will be along in due course.
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
@fabsh On the positive side aside from a 6 day offline stint it's still got all of it's features plus unlimited invites, it's part of google and is now on their servers. What's the likelyhood of the problem occuring again.
Is the problem that you don't trust Jaiku anymore?
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
By the way, precis of recent conversation... Me: if you don't like it, move. You: I have. Me: you haven't moved, you're straddling. You: Didn't you read what I said, I can't fucking move!
I did read what you said, you just keep changing your (fucking) mind.
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
heheheh
10 months, 1 week ago by whatleydude
so basically fabsh missed jaiku?
10 months, 1 week ago by adonisdemon
I'm bitextual. I tweet and I jaiku. But I don't tweet my Jaikus. Am I in the right place? Are any of my friends here?
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
I send from identi.ca to twitter and from army.twit.tv to twitter but I don't send from jaiku to twitter and vice versa. I dislike anyone that posts but doesn't respond to the posts.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
@fabsh You seem to have a lot of harsh criticisms of the Jaiku guys.
1- This message by Jyri: http://jyri.jaiku.com/presence/43166982 says they're having oysters in the Google canteen after bringing back the site. Are you saying that choosing to eat (free) oysters indicates that they don't care? But this one: http://jyri.jaiku.com/presence/43151108 says they've been sleeping at the (admittedly very nice) San Francisco office whilst getting the site back up.
The Twitter guys had a lot of unfair criticisms when they had problems from people who seemed to feel that when you're fixing things you should avoid eating/sleeping/etc. I suspect when identica gets bigger and they start asking for volunteers to be oncall they will face similar criticisms. It's not enough to be open source (sourceforge is full of dead open source projects) you also need people who will deal with production problems 24/7/365. It's going to take some very dedicated people to fix production problems for free on christmas day whilst random bloggers accuse you of slacking.
2- I think identica is a very good idea and I wish you guys all the luck in the world. However badmouthing other people is a bad way to bootstrap a new service. See this: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/19/pressflip-is-a-belly-flop/ for the inevitable consequence.
3- People at Google care about Jaiku. It may not always seem like it given the company's strict rules about public disclosure but there are lots of people involved. Those people have worked really hard over the last week but you've only got my word for it. You're free to believe that I'm lying.
10 months, 1 week ago by adewale
OK, in Fabian's defence, I think we (that includes him) have been very faithful and long time jaiku users (how long has it been? about a year and a half i think, in internet terms that is long). We hardly complained ever before, we've since google bought the service and closed the sign up (not that many new users, not much scaling issues, why the performance trouble?) in order to apparently focus on developing the service not much has happened. If you've been around for so long and been so dedicated it gets frustrating.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
also whether people at google care about jaiku is really secondary. beautiful words but mean absolutely nothing.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
I've culled those I follow when many in my social space migrated and plan to use Jaiku mostly for its channels and SMS-out services. Those channels and those text messages make up for some of the frustrations vented on this thread.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
@topgold. I've never removed people on jaiku but I have on twitter, many times. As the community grew so do the number of people. After a while there are so many tweets you don't see those by your friends.
It's a healthy practice.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
threaded answers. i see no point in microblogging without it.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
i wonder why the you (fab) doesn't come on IRC anymore... we all miss you, IRC has an open ISO spec, and the worst way IRC has downtime are net-splits :) COME TO THE IRC MAN, having you guys stay in these damn micro-blogging services are honestly killing the community you created. Maybe we need some sort of automatic migration system from service to service??
10 months, 1 week ago by HeavensRevenge
You have to cull monthly if you want to flick back and see a day's tweets in the 10 page history archive. And I like threading. I don't like the shout-across-the-pub metaphor on Twitter. Even AT-replies get confusing in all the rabble.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
HAHA HEY :P we should crate a #Jaiku channel on freenode to make everyone feel at home :) or... HEY make Google host a #Jaiku IRC server and let people that use Jaiku use their log in and shit to make rooms and have convos ;) all i know is that things should evolve somehow. come on over to IRC everyone, you'll feel at home :)
10 months, 1 week ago by HeavensRevenge
give me a decent client and i'm there, hehe (haven't used irc since approx age of 14, i had the patience to use mIRC back then, but i doubt i would now)
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
XChat :P but if only that damn windoze client didnt cost money.... uhm.. anyone?? we need to create some way on IRC to have each person as their OWN ROOM/CHANNEL, and then have people following other people, just add the other peoples channel to their own channel, and have a message be directed to another channel by the @<nick> syntax :)
10 months, 1 week ago by HeavensRevenge
@overpills yea give XChat a try, even just the trial and see how you like it, otherwise some people are nutz and actually use Pidgin :P
10 months, 1 week ago by HeavensRevenge
Threading has one massive flaw. Isolated communications. Gangs form and newbies are ignored. Threading is why I left web forums several years ago. I prefer any community where I see what's new in ten seconds rather than 20 minutes.
If there's a good conversation then someone will blog it. Once the post is written I don't need to waste three hours re-reading every single answer to see what points were the most interesting.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
Threading is about the only way a newbie knows how to cut through the random noise patterns in any of these online communities.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
Agree with @topgold It's easier for a newbie to converse in a threaded conversation rather than plucking random names from @ replies. Alos with Jaiku one's far distant friend will see the comment and join in on the fun, that's how most threads in Jaiku get going.
10 months, 1 week ago by adonisdemon
I'm confused. Isn't jaiku threaded. Isn't this a thread of comments?
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
Jaiku is threaded. Twitter is unthreaded. For people who use their mailboxes to thread discussion, Jaiku looks more intuitive. It doesn't mean their friends like it and at the end of the day, you need friends to chat.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
2 million and a half people use twitter, 800,000 posts appear a day. There are many add ons to twitter that people enjoy. Summize was bought by twitter for search.
Quotably can help towards threading as well.
Ironically friendfeed is a cheaper, less refined version of jaiku but since US tech bloggers either don't have invites or friends on jaiku they promote friendfeed.
It's interesting to note these small differences...
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
There's a free version of xchat for Windows, it's the same code just rebranded. Silverex is the name - http://www.silverex.org/
There's already a ##jaiku on freenode :)
10 months, 1 week ago by dennymeta
Some of those user numbers for Twitter are a little inflated, if you believe a third party analytics package: http://www.insideview.ie/irisheyes/2008/08/tweetrush-tells.html
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
Meh
10 months, 1 week ago by smurph
having been involved in a number of this type of horrible projects (you know the ones; should only take a few hours, but end up taking all day or longer), i can forgive (to some limited extent) the Jaiku team for the lack of updates.
You get all involved in solving the problem, and don't really notice the time (one last thing syndrome, this will only take 5 mins and you are still going 30 mins later), or that people do not know what you are doing, so you forget to update people.
Very brave decision to bring the move to Google infrastucture forward (prompted by external events, i would guess). Oh, and i would prefer one big downtime to repeated FailWhale situations (jury is still out on this)
But then look at all the attention the team gave once the service (which BTW is free!) once it came back online, i.e. there was nothing more important to do, they were all over any questions, or reports of problems.
10 months, 1 week ago by ymb
At least with jaiku the downtime improved it.
10 months, 1 week ago by warza
Why Jaiku? Well I have friends here (Hi @Topgold), and Jaiku keep their SMS stream flowing (big deal in Europe where they pay to send, free to get) which is needed if, like me, offline is your usual setup. Threading means that you can choose to join in the flow via SMS, so fewer sent. And as the first devs were ex-nokia, the mobile element is important. I'm sure the Google mobile and GPS apis are from that source. Jaiku is more about the offline/mobile online than the others.
I'm glad its back because it suits me better than the alternatives, and I think I can see where its going.
10 months, 1 week ago by WillKnott